While I can't fault you for that logic, that's a case of an act being used for the wrong things.
A kiss isn't an inherently sexual thing. Most of the time it's a romantic gesture- something you do with someone you love, heart and soul! Someone who you would want to grow old with, someone you would die for! Come to think maybe I should get you some light romance books...
Uh-
Not to say that most people who give each other kisses do feel that hard, honestly when 'dying' comes up it's touch and go...
But the point is, it's a gesture of romance- it's a difference from what you're associating it with. People who love each other, they'll do things like hold hands, hug the other, share light kisses...these are things you associate with married couples right? Well...That's why. It's because they care about the other- enough to want to grow old together, and spend their lives together, in a lot of cases.
But! The important thing about these things as well is that both parties need to agree to it- if someone tries to kiss you, even just touch you and you say no, and they keep going? That's not necessarily being perverted, but it is them assaulting you in some way.
On the flipside, someone wanting to kiss you- and you wanting to maybe be kissed, that's not wrong at all! It's them saying 'I like you- and love you too, and want to be with you more'.
And...it feels like this is where the line keeps coming up. Beyond the fact that it sounds like instead of caring for another, your idea of marriage and togetherness is based more in the idea of whether you can have kids or not...a lot of what you're describing is just absolutely someone refusing to hear the word 'no'!
In any case, the reason these boys are doing that is because a kiss is one of the things most couples do, so if they got in their heads that they 'want' that, and no one told them that 'no means no', they figure 'well then I'll do this first'.
Unfortunately. Like I said...most people figure out really fast when the answer is 'no', but it sounds like the guys around you just...Didn't.
I mean, aren't having kids and doing those things to have them the difference between friendship and marriage? And marriage... it's really nice to think that it's going to be with someone you love, but it's not always going to be like that. Not if your parents arrange it.
I mean. There's a boy I know that-- that loves me. Or he said it once when he thought I was dead. And he kissed me once when he thought he was a cat. But otherwise... we're just friends. Sort of. He was my best friend back home, probably, even though I never told him he was. And I-- I was going to marry him. Because our parents wanted us to... but after I almost died, I kind of wanted to too.
Arranged marriages definitely don't always involve love, that is correct.
But!
[Ahem!] Those are definitely not the difference!
A marriage- when performed between two people who want to be married- is generally an agreement in itself. That's two people saying 'we care for the other so much, we want to spend our lives together, in harmony'~! Friendships are definitely equally important...and if anything, the strongest marriages are between those who are friends as well as lovers!
But you're not necessarily going to want to kiss your friends, right? Or, spend your whole life with them.
On that note it's okay to want to marry someone because you love them. That's...well, a marriage is something that lasts for a long time, you know? The hope is that you would love someone you're living with. Obviously it's a dying hope when omiai gets involved, but if it means anything, a lot of people who still set that kind of thing up pay more attention to if the bride and grooms to be actually like the other after coming to know each other. It's not ideal...but it makes a difference.
Anyway. People who trade hugs and kisses don't have to also follow up with, aha, the 'rest' of it all. If I'm honest, most couples don't do that all the time. Some do! But phew, I would not have the energy!
And as it is, if both people involved like it, and they both say 'let's do it', and know what they're getting into, then that's okay!
Honestly, I'm going to be real, a lot of why it gets associated with 'kids or it's bad' is...because there can be consequences if you don't know what you're doing! At the least, people can get hurt, but at the worst you can get really sick- or in the case of certain matches, end up with kids when you can't handle kids! These are things even adults have trouble with, let alone teenagers!
The problem is that people got a little overzealous in emphasizing the 'bad' to try and keep kids safe... ...and just...stopped teaching about the truth of it all.
Back on track...wanting to spend time with someone, to hold their hand, and be there for them, that can be friendship.
But sometimes, it can mean love too.
That's why marriage isn't always the best way to draw the line between friendship and 'more than'- the fact is...a lot of people, a lot of women who love women, men who love men, they would love to get married. Some of them would even love to raise kids of their own through adoption! A lot of these people want nothing more than to just...have a life together, [she adds with a sad smile.]
...It's just that a lot of people in power...don't always agree.
[That... doesn't seem like the world as Akane understands it. Like the world as she's lived it. But in a weird way, it seems almost nice? That maybe these people she immediately assumed were perverted or got confused about their best friends... just want to be people in love together. And have families. Like her parents, before Mama died.]
Connie didn't say that. She just said something about how her sword-fighting teacher had a crush on someone named Rose for thousands of years and how the most powerful fighter in her world is made from the love from two women. But I mean, I wasn't really worried about the girls, once I made sure with her that they didn't feel the same way about girls as a boy would. Just, you know, frustrated about the boys and how she was trying to tell me it was okay when I knew from Ranma that other boys don't like that.
... though, I guess, maybe the boys that are interested in other boys would.
[She blinks. It's-- kind of obvious that this is a new thought for her.]
Aaah, but that's beside the point. Connie didn't have all the context on why you thought what you thought either- I mean, a few seconds ago it became pretty clear that even a 'kiss' wouldn't mean the same thing!
I think the important thing is...even most boys don't feel the way you figure 'all boys' feel. And more than that, there are definitely girls who do! It's kind of dangerous to assume they don't, actually, there's people who take advantage of that thinking out there...
More to the point, [Carly coughs] There are girls who love boys, but there are also girls who love girls, and boys who love boys. Women who love men or women, men who love women or men...and for that matter, people who love all of the options there! Though I'll admit I never encountered someone who made more than one on one work in the long run until coming here... [She mutters, humming thoughtfully. It's a rather nice thought honestly. Ah, but as it is-]
Like I said before- your only experience has been with some horrible examples of boys and men alike. So...I can't blame you for not believing Connie's words. But if she was talking about who I think... ...well. You can trust her. And I know it's going to be hard to trust a lot of people on that, especially the ones we're talking about, but...you can. It's alright.
Aren't-- aren't kisses significant in the West? In America? Back home, your first kiss in the biggest thing. Ranma got his stolen by this awful pervert boy named Mikado Sanzenin when we were ice skating, because he thought Ranma was a girl, and he was so-- He was furious.
[She glances down, remembering.] We. Almost might have kissed later that night. Except my family was spying on us and we noticed. That-- was the closest we came to it for a while.
He... did kiss me later. But he thought he was a cat, so I don't-- I don't know if that counts. I don't count when we did Romeo and Juliet at school, because I put tape on my mouth.
It's... really hard to believe that most boys aren't like all the ones at my school. [She considers the rest of it.] But not so hard to imagine some girls are. I mean, there's Shampoo. She's just-- she's so brazen. I thought that was because she was Chinese. [AKANE NO.] And then there's Kodachi-- Ugh! She's as big a pervert as her stupid brother. And as big of a creep too. I guess it runs in the family.
Oh yeah, they're a huge deal! But like...that doesn't change that they aren't sexual, [Carly explains, before frowning.] ...Personally I think it's a media thing- a lot of people take it far more seriously than it really deserves when it comes to the 'importance' of a first kiss.
Oh- That doesn't make it any less important that any kisses you get be ones you want though! Frankly if Ranma had that forced on him, he's right to have been mad- no one should have something forced on them like that.
...Uh. ...Tape huh. [Hm. Anyway] Wait Ranma, or this Mikado guy...also if they were a cat how did they kiss y-
[And hold on she's stuck on.] Akane, someone being from another country doesn't determine their personality, let's get that jotted down while we're on the topic okay? Though it does sound like there's some family issues here...
Ranma... curled up in my lap and kissed my mouth. While he was a cat. He wasn't actually a cat, he just thought he was because of this stupid training technique Uncle Saotome used. Actually, I-- really wish he'd have kissed me properly before that... or ever, really.
[Yeah. That's a thing.]
Yeah, I get that it doesn't really determine your personality, but doesn't it determine what you think is okay?
Sounds uh. Pretty catlike that's for sure. I don't know if it...'counts' as a first kiss, but that doesn't really do much to help the experience I'd bet... [she laments sympathetically.]
Ahhh...let's back up a bit on that. Being say...Chinese, or Japanese, that wouldn't be what determines either of those things. It's the people you're surrounded by- their attitudes, and the culture of the area, that's what does it!
If we put someone from another country in your shoes, from birth to your age, they'd probably end up a lot like you for example! [She won't get into the fact that being ostracized or not could uh...influence that, but that's not important right now.] So...saying things like 'because they're American', and so on, that's not necessarily going to be accurate- especially not for things that for the most part, plenty of people can agree are..well.
I'm pretty sure it's just the people in those village then, yeah... And with a name like Pantyhose...
[ah]
...Akane, cats don't have lips.
They tend to get up in people's faces to sniff things, and that often ends in bumping up against stuff. Since a person isn't someone with a face built like a cat though...
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timeasmymeasure
no subject
Date: 2020-04-19 02:32 am (UTC)Wait. She blinks.] Actually, first off-
...Akane do you consider a kiss to be 'sexual'?
[She's going to have to explain romantic gestures and the difference between them and sex isn't she.
She should be paid for this. She really should.]
no subject
Date: 2020-04-19 02:42 am (UTC)The first thing a boy tries to do when he's being a pervert is kiss you, [she explains.]
no subject
Date: 2020-04-19 02:56 am (UTC)A kiss isn't an inherently sexual thing. Most of the time it's a romantic gesture- something you do with someone you love, heart and soul! Someone who you would want to grow old with, someone you would die for! Come to think maybe I should get you some light romance books...
Uh-
Not to say that most people who give each other kisses do feel that hard, honestly when 'dying' comes up it's touch and go...
But the point is, it's a gesture of romance- it's a difference from what you're associating it with. People who love each other, they'll do things like hold hands, hug the other, share light kisses...these are things you associate with married couples right? Well...That's why. It's because they care about the other- enough to want to grow old together, and spend their lives together, in a lot of cases.
But! The important thing about these things as well is that both parties need to agree to it- if someone tries to kiss you, even just touch you and you say no, and they keep going? That's not necessarily being perverted, but it is them assaulting you in some way.
On the flipside, someone wanting to kiss you- and you wanting to maybe be kissed, that's not wrong at all! It's them saying 'I like you- and love you too, and want to be with you more'.
And...it feels like this is where the line keeps coming up. Beyond the fact that it sounds like instead of caring for another, your idea of marriage and togetherness is based more in the idea of whether you can have kids or not...a lot of what you're describing is just absolutely someone refusing to hear the word 'no'!
In any case, the reason these boys are doing that is because a kiss is one of the things most couples do, so if they got in their heads that they 'want' that, and no one told them that 'no means no', they figure 'well then I'll do this first'.
Unfortunately. Like I said...most people figure out really fast when the answer is 'no', but it sounds like the guys around you just...Didn't.
At all.
no subject
Date: 2020-04-19 03:07 am (UTC)I mean. There's a boy I know that-- that loves me. Or he said it once when he thought I was dead. And he kissed me once when he thought he was a cat. But otherwise... we're just friends. Sort of. He was my best friend back home, probably, even though I never told him he was. And I-- I was going to marry him. Because our parents wanted us to... but after I almost died, I kind of wanted to too.
no subject
Date: 2020-04-19 03:23 am (UTC)But!
[Ahem!] Those are definitely not the difference!
A marriage- when performed between two people who want to be married- is generally an agreement in itself. That's two people saying 'we care for the other so much, we want to spend our lives together, in harmony'~! Friendships are definitely equally important...and if anything, the strongest marriages are between those who are friends as well as lovers!
But you're not necessarily going to want to kiss your friends, right? Or, spend your whole life with them.
On that note it's okay to want to marry someone because you love them. That's...well, a marriage is something that lasts for a long time, you know? The hope is that you would love someone you're living with. Obviously it's a dying hope when omiai gets involved, but if it means anything, a lot of people who still set that kind of thing up pay more attention to if the bride and grooms to be actually like the other after coming to know each other. It's not ideal...but it makes a difference.
Anyway. People who trade hugs and kisses don't have to also follow up with, aha, the 'rest' of it all. If I'm honest, most couples don't do that all the time. Some do! But phew, I would not have the energy!
And as it is, if both people involved like it, and they both say 'let's do it', and know what they're getting into, then that's okay!
Honestly, I'm going to be real, a lot of why it gets associated with 'kids or it's bad' is...because there can be consequences if you don't know what you're doing! At the least, people can get hurt, but at the worst you can get really sick- or in the case of certain matches, end up with kids when you can't handle kids! These are things even adults have trouble with, let alone teenagers!
The problem is that people got a little overzealous in emphasizing the 'bad' to try and keep kids safe... ...and just...stopped teaching about the truth of it all.
Back on track...wanting to spend time with someone, to hold their hand, and be there for them, that can be friendship.
But sometimes, it can mean love too.
That's why marriage isn't always the best way to draw the line between friendship and 'more than'- the fact is...a lot of people, a lot of women who love women, men who love men, they would love to get married. Some of them would even love to raise kids of their own through adoption! A lot of these people want nothing more than to just...have a life together, [she adds with a sad smile.]
...It's just that a lot of people in power...don't always agree.
no subject
Date: 2020-04-23 01:41 am (UTC)[That... doesn't seem like the world as Akane understands it. Like the world as she's lived it. But in a weird way, it seems almost nice? That maybe these people she immediately assumed were perverted or got confused about their best friends... just want to be people in love together. And have families. Like her parents, before Mama died.]
Connie didn't say that. She just said something about how her sword-fighting teacher had a crush on someone named Rose for thousands of years and how the most powerful fighter in her world is made from the love from two women. But I mean, I wasn't really worried about the girls, once I made sure with her that they didn't feel the same way about girls as a boy would. Just, you know, frustrated about the boys and how she was trying to tell me it was okay when I knew from Ranma that other boys don't like that.
... though, I guess, maybe the boys that are interested in other boys would.
[She blinks. It's-- kind of obvious that this is a new thought for her.]
no subject
Date: 2020-04-25 10:28 am (UTC)Aaah, but that's beside the point. Connie didn't have all the context on why you thought what you thought either- I mean, a few seconds ago it became pretty clear that even a 'kiss' wouldn't mean the same thing!
I think the important thing is...even most boys don't feel the way you figure 'all boys' feel. And more than that, there are definitely girls who do! It's kind of dangerous to assume they don't, actually, there's people who take advantage of that thinking out there...
More to the point, [Carly coughs] There are girls who love boys, but there are also girls who love girls, and boys who love boys. Women who love men or women, men who love women or men...and for that matter, people who love all of the options there! Though I'll admit I never encountered someone who made more than one on one work in the long run until coming here... [She mutters, humming thoughtfully. It's a rather nice thought honestly. Ah, but as it is-]
Like I said before- your only experience has been with some horrible examples of boys and men alike. So...I can't blame you for not believing Connie's words. But if she was talking about who I think... ...well. You can trust her. And I know it's going to be hard to trust a lot of people on that, especially the ones we're talking about, but...you can. It's alright.
various manga spoilers; cw: light racism (sorry)
Date: 2020-04-26 06:36 pm (UTC)[She glances down, remembering.] We. Almost might have kissed later that night. Except my family was spying on us and we noticed. That-- was the closest we came to it for a while.
He... did kiss me later. But he thought he was a cat, so I don't-- I don't know if that counts. I don't count when we did Romeo and Juliet at school, because I put tape on my mouth.
It's... really hard to believe that most boys aren't like all the ones at my school. [She considers the rest of it.] But not so hard to imagine some girls are. I mean, there's Shampoo. She's just-- she's so brazen. I thought that was because she was Chinese. [AKANE NO.] And then there's Kodachi-- Ugh! She's as big a pervert as her stupid brother. And as big of a creep too. I guess it runs in the family.
[carly voice] 'akane you're such a mess'
Date: 2020-04-26 10:22 pm (UTC)Oh- That doesn't make it any less important that any kisses you get be ones you want though! Frankly if Ranma had that forced on him, he's right to have been mad- no one should have something forced on them like that.
...Uh. ...Tape huh. [Hm. Anyway] Wait Ranma, or this Mikado guy...also if they were a cat how did they kiss y-
[And hold on she's stuck on.] Akane, someone being from another country doesn't determine their personality, let's get that jotted down while we're on the topic okay? Though it does sound like there's some family issues here...
those 'mr saotomes' should have been 'uncle saotome' the entire time
Date: 2020-04-26 11:19 pm (UTC)[Yeah. That's a thing.]
Yeah, I get that it doesn't really determine your personality, but doesn't it determine what you think is okay?
noted wheeze
Date: 2020-04-27 12:32 pm (UTC)Sounds uh. Pretty catlike that's for sure. I don't know if it...'counts' as a first kiss, but that doesn't really do much to help the experience I'd bet... [she laments sympathetically.]
Ahhh...let's back up a bit on that. Being say...Chinese, or Japanese, that wouldn't be what determines either of those things. It's the people you're surrounded by- their attitudes, and the culture of the area, that's what does it!
If we put someone from another country in your shoes, from birth to your age, they'd probably end up a lot like you for example! [She won't get into the fact that being ostracized or not could uh...influence that, but that's not important right now.] So...saying things like 'because they're American', and so on, that's not necessarily going to be accurate- especially not for things that for the most part, plenty of people can agree are..well.
Bad.
I FORGOT SHE USED THAT AS A COURTESY TITLE JUST LIKE FUCKING "GRANDFATHER" HAPPOSAI
Date: 2020-04-27 02:17 pm (UTC)But okay. I guess if it's how everyone acts around them and not genes, that would still explain why everyone I've ever met from China is... like that.
[AKANE...
why is your canon so bad about Chinese people?]Except the guide. And Plum. Maybe it's just people who live in Shampoo's village and Herb's village and Phoenix Mountain??? And Pantyhose Taro.
[That. Would be a lot closer to accurate than just saying 'Chinese People.'
STILL FULL OF UNFORTUNATE IMPLICATIONS THANKS RUMIKO-SENSEI]... also do cats just go around and kiss people all the time????
jkghfkjhdfg
Date: 2020-04-27 09:38 pm (UTC)BECAUSE IT'S JAPAN IN THE 80S BABY!]I'm pretty sure it's just the people in those village then, yeah... And with a name like Pantyhose...
[ah]
...Akane, cats don't have lips.
They tend to get up in people's faces to sniff things, and that often ends in bumping up against stuff. Since a person isn't someone with a face built like a cat though...
Re: jkghfkjhdfg
Date: 2020-04-27 10:04 pm (UTC)[Ah yes. This would be the 'Grandfather Happosai' who gropes people and steals panties.]
no subject
Date: 2020-04-27 10:05 pm (UTC)[Mmmmmm. Well moving along then.]
Well, back on topic...are you feeling any better about things?
We kinda talked about...a Lot.
no subject
Date: 2020-04-27 11:02 pm (UTC)A lot better, actually. Thanks, Carly. I really owe you.
no subject
Date: 2020-04-27 11:04 pm (UTC)Hopefully that means you can patch things up before the big party now...
no subject
Date: 2020-04-27 11:17 pm (UTC)[She hopes Connie's still around.]
no subject
Date: 2020-04-27 11:21 pm (UTC)Good luck~!
AND WRAP
Date: 2020-04-27 11:55 pm (UTC)